| From: | Kai Bernau |
|---|---|
| Subject: | neutrality |
| Date: | arch 24, 2005 1:35:19 PM GMT+01:00 |
| To: | Experimental Jetset |
dear experimental jetset:
dear marieke, danny and erwin.
my name is kai bernau, i'm a graphic design student from germany, studying in the final (graduation) year of the graphic design course at the kabk in den haag.
for my graduation project, i am thinking about neutrality. i adore your work, and the ideas behind it (as far as i understand). i would love to "interview" you on this topic for my graduation project, or rather yet: let you talk, philosophise, reflect on it, drop in anecdotes, your convictions or whatever you would like to give me.
i am also trying to interview other graphic designers on the same topic; their opinions, and hopefully yours, will be a part of my research.
if you would be so kind as to grant me an (unguided) interview, this would be a first starting point:
- is there neutrality in (graphic) design, in typography?
- what is it, and where is it?
- what is neutral?
- is neutrality in design a good thing?
unfortunately, i can at the monent not tell you what exactly i am working on, because i would like to try and stay neutral at this point, and not influence the direction of what you will (hopefully) be writing.
if you would agree to write anything that i can use, i would be utterly grateful, but i would have to ask you to -- yikes! -- do so until maximum end of april... sorry about that.
if you could give me a small (preferably positive) reply whether you'd be interested, i'd be very happy.
regards,
kai
| From: | Experimental Jetset |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Re: neutrality |
| Date: | March 29, 2005 10:32:18 PM GMT+02:00 |
| To: | Kai Bernau |
Hello Kai, we wish we could help you to philosophise about neutrality, but we're afraid we have not much to say about it. Our views on it are quite simple.
We see neutrality as a social convention, as something that exists not as an intrinsic quality, but as something that exists only because of some kind of agreement. So how we see it, things are not neutral in themselves; they are only neutral because society defined them as such.
In our work, we use a lot of elements that can be seen as 'neutral', because we're quite intrigued by social conventions, standards, archetypes, formats, etc. By using them in a very overstated and self-referential way, we try to make these conventions transparent.
So we're certainly not against these conventions. We just want to make them visible, as they are usually quite invisible. Usually they are not seen as human-made conventions, but as god-given rules; we hope that by using them in a certain way, we can show them as what they are.
So that is (in short) the story.
is there neutrality in (graphic) design, in typography?
As you are German, maybe it's a good idea to describe it as follows. We don't speak (or write) German at all, but we do know that the phrase 'there is' translates into 'es gibt', which means 'it gives'. 'It gives' suggests that neutrality is something that is given 'from above', or to put it clearer, as something 'god-given'. While we see it as something that is not given 'from above', but as something that we created ourselves; as something that we gave ourselves. So we don't think 'es gibt' neutrality in graphic design; we think 'wir geben' neutrality in graphic design.
what is it, and where is it? what is neutral?
We hope we explained that in the first paragraphs of this mail.
is neutrality in design a good thing?
We are not against social conventions; we are completely for them, as they are the glue that holds culture together. But we do think they should be recognizable as social conventions, constructed by society.
Okay. So that's it, basically.
We think one of the reasons you asked us about neutrality is because we used that word a few times in an interview about Helvetica that we gave two years ago. We'll include this interview for your convenience.
The text is available in Emigre magazine #65, "Standing on the shoulders of giants", available from Emigre.com —Ed.
We still believe what we said in that interview, but maybe some of the words could be better chosen. For example, when we say that the neutrality of Helvetica is a 'myth', we of course mean it's a social convention.
A myth is the same thing as a constructed, social fact, so in that sense we're saying now the same thing as we said two years ago, but we do agree the word 'myth' is a bit more confusing.
Anyway. We hope these quick thoughts will bring you somewhat further.
Kind regards,
Danny, Marieke, Erwin,
Experimental Jetset.
http://www.experimentaljetset.nl
| From: | Kai Bernau |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Re: neutrality |
| Date: | March 30, 2005 6:15:35 PM GMT+02:00 |
| To: | Experimental Jetset |
dear danny marieke and erwin,
dear experimental jetset.
just to let you know, thank you very much for your email, i just found it now (in, i am shocked! my spam folder). thank you for taking the time to write me this highly interesting piece.
and now as you have been so kind to show me your opinions, i would like to point you to a part of my website (now offline —Ed.) where you can see why i asked what i asked, what i have been busy with. and you can also see that our opinions on neutrality (for example that it is a convention) do not differ too much.
On Mar 29, 2005, at 22:32, Experimental Jetset wrote:
Hello Kai, we wish we could help you to philosophise about neutrality, but we're afraid we have not much to say about it. Our views on it are quite simple.
not simple at all, but very well-thought and nicely written. thank you so much.
if you don't mind, i would like to take some time to process your email more thoroughly and then reply en detail.
i knew the article in the emigre mag, even referenced it in my project, but thank you very much for sending it along. you are very kind.
best
kai
| From: | Kai Bernau |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Re: neutrality |
| Date: | April 5, 2005 1:50:58 PM GMT+02:00 |
| To: | Experimental Jetset |
my dear and favourite jetset,
thank you again for your reply. you may in the meantime have reviewed my own writings and you may have found that our views on the phenomenon are not entirely different.
i am very glad you gave me your input, it was refreshing and, unlike that of some other parties, reassuring and, at the same time and very much *like* that of some other parties, unsettling. i presume that's good.
one point that i would like to clarify is this:
In our work, we use a lot of elements that can be seen as 'neutral', because we're quite intrigued by social conventions, standards, archetypes, formats, etc. By using them in a very overstated and self-referential way, we try to make these conventions transparent.
basically you are saying, that using something that is "neutral", in that it was made not to make a statement of its own, makes a statement of its own? I found this excruciatingly interesting, and it is now more clear to me than it was back when, as you correctly assumed, i read your interview in emigre.
i am reminded, and i am going to include that, of Watzlawick's famous saying that "you cannot not communicate". But in difference to your opinion, i don't think it becomes -- and not neccessarily in your work, either -- self-referential: neutrality is a mere social convention, and how something is perceived dramatically depends on the social, cultural, time and fashion, technique etc background in which the recipient lives:
A person that does not dress in colours, but only in black, undoubtedly makes a very strong (fashion) statement. But what, actually, does it say? Is he in mourning over a recently deceased family member? (And here, we see how strongly the contents of our conventions are based in our background!) Is he afraid of wearing the «wrong» colours, making a «wrong» statement? Does he simply not like colours, or think that black suits him best? The statement may become vague and intransparent, inaccessible or even incomprehensible, depending on where, when and who you are, and surrounded by who and what.
is there neutrality in (graphic) design, in typography?
As you are German, maybe it's a good idea to describe it as follows. We don't speak (or write) German at all, but we do know that the phrase 'there is' translates into 'es gibt', which means 'it gives'. 'It gives' suggests that neutrality is something that is given 'from above', or to put it clearer, as something 'god-given'. While we see it as something that is not given 'from above', but as something that we created ourselves; as something that we gave ourselves. So we don't think 'es gibt' neutrality in graphic design; we think 'wir geben' neutrality in graphic design.
In the light of what you, and what i said above, can we even "give" neutrality?
But in the end, it is always more important to ask, than to answer.
I would like to include an excerpt from your mail into my "meditation" book about The Neutral Typeface (although i am not sure yet which one). It is of course a complete non-profit ("financially desastrous" will probably be more to the point), studenty thing, self-produced and self-"published", but i will try to send either a copy of it, or another materialisation of my project, your way in the end. is that okay with you?
the latest version of my book draft is, as always, online (not any more —Ed.) and comments, however sharply critical, are always welcome.
thank you so much for your input!
best
kai bernau
| From: | Experimental Jetset |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Re: Re: neutrality |
| Date: | April 7, 2005 3:33:52 PM GMT+02:00 |
| To: | Kai Bernau |
Hello Kai, some quick reactions (as always, we're quite busy - deadlines are killing us).
basically you are saying, that using something that is "neutral", in that it was made not to make a statement of its own, makes a statement of its own?
Well, that is more or less our intention (although this doesn't necessarily mean we always succeed in this)...
For example, take the sign system we developed for SMCS. The graphics themselves (typography set in Univers, combined with very standard infographics) can be seen as quite 'neutral'. But then we deconstruct these 'neutral' signs by dividing them into a system of A4 sheets. Of course, A4 is another 'neutral' format. So in a way, by combining two 'neutral' systems, or in a way by making them clash, we try to make the neutrality visible. To expose it, so to speak.
A person that does not dress in colours, but only in black, undoubtedly makes a very strong (fashion) statement. But what, actually, does it say? Is he in mourning over a recently deceased family member? (And here, we see how strongly the contents of our conventions are based in our background!) Is he afraid of wearing the «wrong» colours, making a «wrong» statement? Does he simply not like colours, or think that black suits him best? The statement may become vague and intransparent, inaccessible or even incomprehensible, depending on where, when and who you are, and surrounded by who and what.
We don't know exactly how you think this example relates to our views on neutrality, but if we had to find a relationship, it would be as follows. When you talk about dressing in black, we immediately think about this extremely interesting collection made a few years ago by fashion designers Viktor & Rolf. The clothes were all black, the models' faces were also painted black. The first part of the show took place in complete darkness, showing only some white accessoires. The second part, the light went on, and the clothes became visible.
How we see it, by addressing blackness (by making a collection that is not only black, but is also ABOUT blackness) we certainly feel the theme of blackness becomes transparent as what it is: a theme within the fashion industry.
So in that sense, we do think self-referentiality can lead to transparency.
In fact, our whole body of work is based on this single idea. But we also can
imagine most people think otherwise: that self-referentiality leads
to vagueness.
So, in that sense, it's us against them, we guess. But maybe our transparency
is other people's vagueness (and vice versa), who knows?
Anyway, we'll check your online-book-in-progress soon. Let us know if you received this mail, or if it was directed to your spam/junk box, as our last mail (shocking!).
Kind regards,
Danny, Marieke, Erwin,
Experimental Jetset.
http://www.experimentaljetset.nl
| From: | Kai Bernau |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Re: neutrality |
| Date: | April 7, 2005 4:00:11 PM GMT+02:00 |
| To: | Experimental Jetset |
Dear Jetset,
thanks for your reply, which, as always, will take a bit to digest.
(as always, we're quite busy - deadlines are killing us).
in the light of this, it will be futile to ask what i am going to ask, but since a) the question is always more important than the answer and b) i'd hate myself forever if i didn't, please let me most humbly ask you if you would, apart from appearing, in text, in the book you're about to read, be interested in also making a contribution to my project in a visual statement...
it is part of my concept (mainly of the exhibition concept) to not only *make* posters showcasing the typeface, but also *have posters made* doing so. Quoting my own exhibition mission brief:
the only other exhibit in the room is a surprise for the visitor when he leaves the room: Next to the door, a series of scaled-down prints of posters will be found, alongside with a plaque acknowledging the designers and informing the visitor where the posters are hung. These posters constitute an additional part of my project: A series of designers will be offered the typeface to make any poster of their choice (either an existing assignment or an imaginary one) with it. These posters will be hung in various places of the school, without any sign that they are part of my project.
so basically, you are wholeheartedly invited to use a 70*100 space to make the poster you always wanted to make, from political statements to self-advertising to a charity project to a drunk-photoshoptennis-orgasm executed by your interns.
participants receive a copy of their own poster and (if produced) another little something that i want to do for the project but must not tell yet, as well as a lifelong license, including all future upgrades and extensions, to the yet-to-be-made typeface.
rules of the game: must use the yet-to-be-made typeface, must be 70*100, must not use any colors that cannot be reproduced by an epson 10000 large format inkjet. can be about everything except for the typeface used or the political neutrality of switzerland. can, but need not state the name of the designer(s), but must not name the yet-to-be-produced (and yet-to-be-named) typeface. must be submitted as a digital file (pdf, ai, eps, indesign 3.0, xpress 6.0, psd) before june 10, 2005
needless to say, i would love you to participate.
Anyway, we'll check your online-book-in-progress soon.
thank you so much, any input will be greatly appreciated.
Let us know if you received this mail, or if it was directed to your spam/junk box, as our last mail (shocking!).
have/wasn't. my spam filter has learned your spamminess to be below the threshold :-)
groetjes
+ fijn weekend
kai
| From: | Kai Bernau |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Neutrality: Book Updated, Type Specimen Online! |
| Date: | MApril 20, 2005 1:38:31 PM GMT+02:00 |
| To: | Neutrality List |
(You are receiving this e-mail because you are in conversation with Kai Bernau on the topic of neutrality. If you think you should not, or prefer not to, receive these e-mails any longer, please simply reply to this e-mail with subject line "no thanks" or similar)
Dear everyone,
Thanks to your (continuing) input, for which I am very thankful, the book is prospering and slowly growing. The latest version is 1.5.6, a PDF of which is online at my website for you.
(Offline —Ed.)
The main reason for the apparent slowing down of my work on the book is the work on the Neutral Typeface, which is based on the results of my analysis.
So, for the first time I would also like to share with you the ongoing development of the Neutral Typeface, a small specimen of which is also available on the website.
Please feel free at any time to continue our discussions or to make remarks about the book or the typeface. Your opinions are highly appreciated.
Best, Kai Bernau
(if you have problems accessing the site — which you shouldn't have —, you can access the files directly through these links:
Neutrality research book, version 1.5.6 (April 19, PDF, 300KB):
Neutral Typeface specimen (build 050420-001, PDF, 30KB):
| From: | Experimental Jetset |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Re: Neutrality: Book Updated, Type Specimen Online! |
| Date: | April 20, 2005 6:30:12 PM GMT+02:00 |
| To: | Kai Bernau |
Hey Kai,
We totally forgot to answer your last mail, and now we can't seem to find it... If we remember well you asked us to design a poster, using your neutrality typeface, before June, right? Or was it July?
Anyway, designing a poster is always fun, and it'll be nice to have your typeface, so it's okay. Just send over the font when you're finished with it...
Okay.
Speak to you later!
Danny, Marieke, Erwin.
Experimental Jetset.
| From: | Kai Bernau |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Re: Neutrality &c |
| Date: | April 20, 2005 7:28:01 PM GMT+02:00 |
| To: | Experimental Jetset |
| 1 Attachment |
Dear Danny, Marieke, Erwin.
We totally forgot to answer your last mail, and now we can't seem to find it... If we remember well you asked us to design a poster, using your neutrality typeface, before June, right? Or was it July?
Indeed so, I'm sorry about having been so bold. The original email is attached, and the details are described in it.
Anyway, designing a poster is always fun, and it'll be nice to have your typeface, so it's okay. Just send over the font when you're finished with it...
Wow, that's gorgeous! Thank you so much!
The typeface (a regular weight and a black, presumably, and i hope i'll have time to make a light for the book) is scheduled for "finishing" on May 31, but you can start playing with it right now with this first evaluation copy.
As this is unfinished and unpublished work, please do not use it for any production job prior to receiving your final copy and license, and do not distribute the font file.
I'm very happy to have you on board, thanks again very much!
Kai
| From: | Kai Bernau |
|---|---|
| Subject: | neutralitatem habemus! |
| Date: | June 1, 2005 2:58:47 PM GMT+02:00 |
| To: | Experimental Jetset |
| 1 Attachment |
dear marieke, erwin and danny,
at last! the neutral typeface is done*
(*where "done" means it contains all the characters i need for my book and the kerning is almost done)
enclosed in this email you find your personal and individually generated copy of the neutral typeface in macintosh postscript format and a free perpetual site license as a token of my gratitude for your invaluable help with the theorie part and the upcoming poster. *cough*
please be sure to read the readme file and your license carefully, and apart from that, have fun with the neutral typeface. for best performance please also delete all prior versions of the typeface before installing this one from your font management software (delete, not simply deactivate!)
on the book front: the book is going to be printed by MacDonald/SSN in Nijmegen starting next monday. I'm so nervous.
have a nice day!
kai
| From: | Experimental Jetset |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Re: neutralitatem habemus! |
| Date: | June 1, 2005 8:51:50 PM GMT+02:00 |
| To: | Kai Bernau |
Hello Kai,
The typeface looks great! We were able to open it with the given password and we congratulate you on your hard work.
We are off for a holiday right now, so when would you need the poster? And to we know all the specifics yet? Please refresh our memory, we have been working too damn hard.
We wish you a great summer! and a beautiful book.
Best regards, Marieke Danny Erwin, EJ.
| From: | Kai Bernau |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Re: neu! tral |
| Date: | June 1, 2005 9:23:40 PM GMT+02:00 |
| To: | Experimental Jetset |
My dear Jetsetters,
On Jun 1, 2005, at 20:51, Experimental Jetset wrote:
The typeface looks great!
And suddenly, it was worth all the hard work
We are off for a holiday right now, so when would you need the poster? And to we know all the specifics yet? Please refresh our memory, we have been working too damn hard.
Okay: my deadline for printing the posters is June 16, it must be printable on an EPSON 10000CF printer on a maximum format of 70 x 100 cm. It must use, but not make a statement about, the neutral typeface and you're welcome to include a line like "Design: Experimental Jetset" or whatever you like.
Apart from that, i wish you three a lot of fun in Chaumont (is that really holidays?), and that you can get your heads cleaned of all the stress you had.
All the best, Kai
| From: | Experimental Jetset |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Poster 70 x 100 cm. |
| Date: | June 16, 2005 10:34:15 PM GMT+02:00 |
| To: | Kai Bernau |
Hello Kai, enclosed the poster. Sorry it took a while; today was quite a busy day, so before we could start working on your poster, we first had to finish a lot of other stuff.
Anyway, here it is. We hope you like it!
We saved the poster as a PDF, mainly because PDF's look so much sharper on our screens. But if you think it's better to print it as an EPS, let us know, and we will make an Illustrator file of it, instead of a PDF. Just check if it's printable as it is now, and let us know!
In short something about the design:
The whole idea behind the poster is this quote out of the Guardian, Stanley Kubrick talking about Futura, his favorite typeface: http://film.guardian.co.uk/features/featurepages/0,4120,1177734,00.html It's quite a well-known quote, it has been posted on many (typo)graphic forums and weblogs.
So we were thinking about a way to display your typeface, and as usual we were totally without inspiration, when suddenly we remembered this quote, and we thought it might be a good starting point. Since Kubrick was supposedly so interested in sans serif type, we figured that the best context to present a new sans serif typeface would be a poster for a Kubrick movie. A movie poster is quite a recognizable format, so we thought it would fit quite naturally in your series of posters.
So we were thinking about how to make a completely typographic poster, sort of a hybrid between a movie poster and a type specimen, when we suddenly had another idea. In a way, the most 'neutral' letter of a sans serif alphabet is the undercast L (or the capital i), as it is just a black vertical bar. It is the context (the word in which the letter is placed) that decides whether the 'I' is an 'i' or a 'L'. And at that point, we suddenly made a connection between this neutral 'I' and the black monolith that appears in '2001: A Space Odyssey'.
So yeah, that's basically the concept behind the poster. The neutral 'I' shown as a black monolith, in the form of a movie poster. Sorry if we explain it kind of clumsy, we're actually quite tired. But we hope you get the idea. It is probably not one of our brightest concepts, it's actually quite a bizarre idea, but we do hope you like the poster. We know we do.
Okay. Let us know if you could open the PDF, and if it's printable. Also, let us know if you received this mail (the spam/junkmail incident is still fresh in our memory).
Okay!
Good luck with everything!
Speak to you soon,
Danny, Marieke, Erwin,
Experimental Jetset.
http://www.experimentaljetset.nl
(You can see the poster in the Posters section —Ed.)